Humble DeFi Community Feedback for GP 11

Governance
, ,
1

Hey Algofam,

Below is our ideas behind allocations to the upcoming Q2 24’ rewards. Please note that due to not knowing how much we actually will get, and short turn around times, that these allocations are only % estimations, and may vary once actual figures are known. They also do not include any partner matching. Should things change, we will promptly update and reach out to the community for additional comments.

Algo/USDC - 20%
Algo/USDT - 7%
Algo/VEST - 7%
Algo/DEFLY - 7%
Algo/COSG - 1.5%
Algo/AKTA - 1.5%
Algo/COOP - 1.5%
gAlgo/USDC - 15%
gAlgo/USDT - 7.5%
USDC/USDT - 10%
goUSD/Silver - 7%
goUSD/Gold - 7%
EURs/USDC - 2%
GoUSD/btc - 2%
GoUSD/eth - 2%
Algo/Ora - 1%
Buffer Amount - 1%

Let me know your thoughts!

5 Likes
2

i would like to see volume/TVL ratios for those pools to see if their TVL is used effectively and which pools probably will get a match from other dapps/projects since that means humble has a bigger incentive to give out rewards to those

2 Likes
3

Algo/USDC - 80
EURs/USDC - 20

My rationale:

  • ALGO/USDC liquidity is the base for Algorand DeFi.
  • As much as I love GOLD$ and SILVER$, there is no current mechanism for regular users to bring GOLD$ and SILVER$ on-chain onto Algorand. The current liquidity is provided by Meld Gold and its partners.
  • goBTC and goETH bridge is centralized. I would reconsider if Algomint would deliver on their roadmap the trustless, permissionless, decentralized bridge.
  • Algorand DeFi would be the ideal DeFi platform to support currency swaps - EURs/USDC would be a good showcase.
5 Likes
4

Thanks for the feedback lobo.

I can try to put out some numbers for better insight, operating on a bit of a quick turn around.

To give some general #s, the only real significant swap/tvl ratio is within the Algo/USD pairs & some of the meme coins (algo/ora for example). gAlgo pairs have decent volume, though overall the entire eco is low ratios (even in algo/usd compartively, which sits anywhere from 7-15% on average daily turnover) I believe the biggest “red flags” on a ratio to reward basis would be around GOLD, SILVER, USDC/USDT, and some would consider the gAlgo/usd pairs when compared to algo/usd, though for the ecosystem it is still decent and last i checked around 5-8% but I want to confirm (its not like galgo/algo, where we dont see as big a case to incentivize).

Some context on why we are still pushing larger allocations there is:

USDC/USDT: This is a very important pair within DeFi, however due to lack of Stable support, its not as effective as it could be. Stable swaps are a very near feature for us, and our thoughts are increasing this TVL in anticipation.

GOLD/SILVER: These pairs have been admittedly lower volume than we had hope, but our focus is strategic in that our discussions with MELD have been exciting, and we are anticipating things like CEX listings and further adoption on that front. I am a firm believe in RWAs and my hope is to see some additional adoption over this next year. That being said, it is at risk of lowering its allocation % if we do not see continued to growth (outside TVL).

As you noted as well, partnerships are a heavy consideration for us. As the smallest DEX, we partially have to consider the impact of our distributions to include Partners who have long supported us. Almost every pair we choose has a bit of this influence, and our partners typically include:

  • Vestige
  • Defly
  • COSG
  • MELD (Metals)
  • Algomint (gousd, btc, eth)
  • Folks (gAlgo)
3 Likes
5

Hey Oyster,

Thanks for the feedback!

To be honest, I’ve thought of similar things like this. Algo/USDC, Algo/USDT, and then a focus on forex (if only we had more than EUR and USD!!). I think focusing less, but more key pairs is a good move for TDR in general, and I do encourage the other DEXs to take more tailored approaches.

I have strayed away from this large of a cut as I think there are some tokens that are valuable, and important for us to retain/grow users. Above comment to lobo I touched on some of these things a little bit, largely influenced by lack of stableswaps, partners, and strategic placements for user retention/growth (which is the metric we are also earning rewards on).

Your rationale is noted. Id like to see more robust on/off ramps for MELD, I love RWAs but accessibility is important. Ive had a few discussions with them over the last few months and I’m really bullish, but still awaiting actions.

The Algomint comment is fair. They need to do this. I like algomint over the other wrapped asset providers (really Wormhole is the only other competitive) because I see them grinding here for years. Though, that shouldn’t excuse this.

2 Likes
6

As always humble cmes up with pretty thought out plan

Only change i would personally like to see is bigger EURS/USDC incentivization – it thisTVL for it is severely lacking on algo, and it could be a great source of volume in general(as tehre is always movement in eur/usd pair so ARBs will be busy yielding fees)

I think its very commedable you guys keep incentivizing some community ASAs also. I’m ofc biased on this.

3 Likes
7

@oysterpack the Algomint comment is not entirely fair as we removed KYC in June 2023.

3 Likes
8

Thanks Simon!

Always appreciate your feedback… Its a good point actually and should see more vol. than the like pairs of usdc/usdt. Taking this feedback for our revision once we hear everyone else.

9

what would be the reason you are adding to the Vest and ORA pool? Vest doesnt have any reason to trade it and same with ORA? Why not take that money and split it amongst a couple smaller community ASAs that would actually give you guys txn fees? The community’s that aren’t listed are $BUTTS, $KHAAA, $NIKO, $ALC, $META, $GORA, $PEPE, $TACO, $THC, $BARB? Help the community grow right??

1 Like
10

Mea culpa - I had forgotten.
I’ll correct it.

1 Like
11

Yo,

Thanks for the feedback!

The reason we choose the two are as follows:

VEST: We really try to look at projects that are building and bring value to the eco. Vestige is one of the greats IMO, and we have found our partnership valuable. They are one of the larger ASAs and we anticipate growth with their roadmap

ORA: This is part of our smaller community approach (alongside COOP & AKTA). ORA has seen significant txn volume, and is climbing the ranks.

That being said, we do love supporting the community and want to find the right balance. We do have a smaller allocation so its hard to split up to many or risk having just small fractured LPs. An additional note is some of those assets you mentioned dont have much turnover either, and are in my opinion too small of projects (for ex KHAAA is 4k TVL w/ 80$ swap vol).

Of those tokens you did list out tho, I will say there could be more inclusion and I will take back that feedback. I particularly like what BARB has been doing, METAs participation, & PEPEs attraction to outside users. ALC has been an OG, and who doesnt like some TACO? GORA is one that I would say is missed on our end, both their size and contributions to the network are noteworthy but they have a much deeper relation with Tinyman.

2 Likes
12

I can see the stretch with Vestige as a partner. TDR to these projects will help give them validity and ultimately will give you support because their community’s are much more deeper. Supporting $ORA before all the OGs is the wrong direction IMO, not too mention there is no reason to hold $ORA. Im a holder of $ORA but tough to see so many get skipped. Thanks for the feedback. Everyone I named has a stronger community that 85% of what you listed.

Why is 23.5% total going to gAlgo pools? No one I’ve ever talk too has been like “yo you collecting that galgo”. Folks Finance doesn’t need help propping their bags up while also receiving TDR. They have received enough from grants and handouts. But that’s just me.

13

With regard to the decentralised bridge it was supposed to deploy with Stateproofs which is currently unexecuted.

14

Thanks for sharing :saluting_face:

I chatted TDR a good bit in GP 10 and my thoughts haven’t changed, and are kinda similar to Oyster; focus on USDC (easiest inflow) and go from there. Ideally AF doing whatever it can to make CCTP priority #1

It sounds like @HumbleShaman you’ve also has some similar thoughts along these lines too.

It’s hard to judge a single protocol proposal in isolation…

What I’m interested in is hearing from the defi committee - what have you learnt from period to period?

How are these new allocations an improvement on the past?

Are you experimenting with any new strategies for GP11 to fix any wrongs from GP10?

From outside looking in, it feels like protocols are busy trying to keep everyone happy. Don’t want to upset the community, don’t want to upset the partners… and we get a very big spread of LPs as a result with no clear defined focus.

And the result is likely the same as it has been for every TDR so far.

I know Humble is one of the smaller allocations, so this comment isn’t especially targeted to you. More of a general… what’s the plan?

Even without going super radical new plan… our dex routing is killer. It feels like you could consolidate?

Currently:

Algo/USDC - 20%
Algo/USDT - 7%
gAlgo/USDC - 15%
gAlgo/USDT - 7.5%
USDC/USDT - 10%

Consolidate:

Algo/USDC - 30%
USDC/USDT - 20%
Algo/gAlgo - 10% (I think Tinyman/Pact normally cover this with Folks so prob not needed?)

A gAlgo to USDT swap (can probably count the people doing this on one hand) would have a few hops but with deeper LPs should have less or equal slippage. Increased volume in less pools gives them a better chance at being sustainable on trading fees alone long term? Or am I missing something?

4 Likes
15

Can you please clarify what you mean by “unexecuted”?

16

we definitely dont need ALGO-gALGO on humble as well, useless liquidity. could just do gALGO-USDC

also USDC-USDt might seem like a smart idea because swaps can be routed through it by aggregators but non-stableswaps like the ones humble uses are sooooo inefficient they become kinda useless. so it only makes sense to use incentives on it in anticipation of a stableswap coming to humble which shaman mentioned

2 Likes
17

Hey mate,
So stateproofs went live one way (Algo out) so wasn’t fully executed and obviously unusable for our purposes.

18

Hey Stitch,

I did appreciate your feedback for this quarters rewards (thanks for chatting with me via DMs).

CCTP is personally one of the biggest things I think we could get, alongside just generally more stable pairs (id love diversity outside USDC :slight_smile: ). I, as well as a few people I know (shout out Nullun at Algorand Foundation!), have been trying to lobby Circle but of course as a business they look at things like adoption, demand, feasibility (and probably a little $ to grease the wheels).

Consolidation vs Wide Net has its trade offs and I think each platform has different cases for why one thing might be better. For Humble a large motivating factor is “bang for your buck” that is, what value (in terms of TVL) can I get per unit of rewards, to strategically position ourselves to grow market share (TVL). I look at a few things, but namely: Swap/TVL ratio, Matching potential, expected APRs, users/holders.

I’ve learned a lot being here, and participating in the program and from you guys really…
I think one of my take away is around having a focus purely on TVL, and the pros and cons of it. On one extreme you can incentivize pairs way past their need and create dead TVL. Ive spoken about this quite a bit for galgo/algo. Not that the pair is bad per se, and im happy to see deep liquidity, but using incentives towards it is kind of a waste, and its difficult in a competitive landscape to not fight for the “easy” TVL - though I have so far resisted (admittedly if we had more rewards we would contribute some). On the other side, if you focus more on casting a large net you risk fragmenting liquidity, create a lower return (on TVL basis) per unit of incentives, and possibly missing out on attracting new users through familiar assets (say USDC/USDT for ex).

Finding a balance between fighting for existing market share and for new market share I think is a valuable insight, and something maybe I should reflect on more.

Overtime we have shifted to less pairs, and taken the more consolidated approach I’ve mentioned before ( with a focus on Forex, g(ALGO)/USD).

Of course, keeping the community happy is a priority, though one I try not to worry about too much - but am conscious of. You cant make everyone happy, and I try to be a good steward of what I’m given. Being here deep in the community since the Reddit NFT days, you guys are all family to me, and I want to do my best to see us all win.

Am noting all the feedback and taking it in. Expect to see revisions after I get everyone elses insight.

Off for the night,

Shaman

2 Likes
19

That’s what I thought you meant. Here in America, we would say: Stateproof bridges were not fully “implemented” to support bidirectional bridging.

London Bridge, a bi-directional bridge using stateproofs between Algorand and Ethereum, went live on testnet in June 2023. Was there any follow-up on this?

2 Likes
20

its dead and would have used off-chain components to verify state proofs since you cant do this on chain yet sadly

1 Like